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Comprised of Alex Ewell, Emma Maatman, Nathan O'Dell, and Joe Trainor, Los Angeles' most adventurous four-piece Dummy breaks down their forthcoming sophomore album, their consciousness of never repeating themselves, and how their blissful and pulsing plethora of psych-pop embraces all movement, presence, and physicality.
Paperface Zine: First tell me what you've been up to lately? What have you been listening to, reading, watching, or spending a lot of time doing?
Joe Trainor: Recently I have been listening to a lot of Transient Waves, a really underrated late '90s band that blended drone, trip-hop, and dub. Also I've been listening to the new Jessica Pratt and SML. A really bizarre/weird audio drama called Modes of Thought in Anterran Literature. Also been reading a lot Laird Barron short stories. Been watching Scavengers Reign, Housing Complex C and Children Of The Sea.
Alex Ewell: Playing Shadow of the Erdtree. Listening to the new April Magazine, Jessica Pratt, and Purelink.
Nathan O'Dell: I've been spending most of my time re-playing the Mother series video games and exploring the local after-hours scene. There's a really amazing gallery in LA called Canary Test that always has really good DJ programming as well as interesting art exhibitions on.
Emma Maatman: Lately I feel like I only work! Often with YouTube videos about deep-sea creatures or insects in the background, or some leftist political commentary. A month or two ago, I was pretty into this game, Animal Well, though. A super beautiful, fun game with great sound design and stylized pixel graphics.
PZ: For readers who aren't familiar, how exactly did your old band Wildhoney morph into Dummy?
NO: There was a full-length Wildhoney record in the works before/while we moved to LA. Some of the tracks will forever be in a folder on a hard drive never to be heard, but there were a few songs that ended up being the genesis of the Dummy "vibe." We wanted to start incorporating more synth/drum machine elements but really didn't have the capacity to while we were in Baltimore. After moving to LA, Wildhoney found ourselves lost in the bi-coastal band landscape that many are able to thrive in… so Dummy was formed.
EM: I had been living in LA five or so years when the Wildhoney guys moved to Los Angeles, but I've known Joe for a very long time. We met through the punk and hardcore scene in Baltimore during the years I lived there for school. Toward the end of my time in Baltimore, Joe and I had started making some music together, which I recall sounding kind of like Portishead. When the Wildhoney guys asked if I'd join a new band, I couldn't say no, and we eventually landed on the name Dummy... which to me is a pretty obvious reference.
PZ: What has the Dummy journey been over the past few years? What's been the evolution like for you four since the first EP in 2020?
JT: The journey has been bizarre, fun and difficult, we've gotten to do more than I think any of us expected to, like to go to Europe, do a single on Sub Pop, play with Botch/Luna and to get co-signs from heroes of ours. I think we all feel very fortunate that our music has connected with people. I feel like the evolution has oddly come somewhat full circle because originally stuff like Bowery Electric, Laika and Mr. Fingers were touch stones but those faded into making more "rock" oriented stuff once we start practicing/writing, but with the new LP, house, trip-hop and electronic music made a much big impact on the new record.
NO: The journey began with almost no ambition but to make music we all loved. We've been very fortunate to have had such positive receptions to our releases. Almost every record we've done usually ends with us wondering, "who's even going to even like this?" and every time we are surprised to find it resonates.
PZ: What insight can you share about your upcoming sophomore album Free Energy and how exactly did it all come together? Where was it recorded?
JT: We all wanted to avoid repeating as many ideas as possible from our previous work. It took a really long time to come together, I demoed out a full record of ideas that all got trashed cuz it wasn't moving anyone. We knew we wanted to make something you would move your body to, that felt less emotionally distant and shunned vintage synths. We didn't wanna make "pleasant" music, so much "rock" feels like background music for a crappy streaming show, just sonic wallpaper. I don't think we are some challenging band like The Dead C, ultimately we make pop but we certainly come from the mindset of blending the avant-garde into more accessible music.
AE: About half the songs were developed over the course of several live shows—we performed different versions which ended up evolving into what's on the record. The other half were developed more around the time of our studio sessions, maybe we had some demos, but those really transformed in the studio. That said, we did keep a lot of the audio from the demos—drum machines, noise, synths, which we recorded at home—on the final album. We weren't precious about how we achieved the sounds at all, we just embraced anything that sounded good, and sometimes embraced cacophony.
PZ: What kind of gear did you have in the band? Tell us about effects, pedals, etc.
JT: I have an Alamo amp, pretty standard pedals and microfreak for live stuff. Gear talk for us I don't think its that interesting since we just have pretty cheap normal stuff. I think people think we have crazier gear, but we just are focused on getting the coolest sounds within our limited resources, and I think we'd encourage people to not overspend on gear, and just make magic with what you've got. Ultimately it's about the tune being compelling.
AE: Pretty much all second/third-hand, hand-me-down, or just budget stuff. Over the years, we've collected a functional setup; fortunately there are a lot of good options in terms of affordable gear these days. Arturia is one of my favorites for synths right now.
PZ: How did you land on the title name?
AE: For me it evokes an optimism, possibly a utopian concept, an oxymoron of physics. In our world the law of conservation implies that all energy has some cost, or must transfer from somewhere. You have to burn fuel to get fire. Free energy would therefore be infinite energy, a source of new energy. A fire that doesn't need fuel. We came across the phrase in bubble physics, representing thermodynamic potential. But it also feels like maybe music is a form of free energy, moving our bodies spontaneously, sustaining us, just absorbing it through the air, immersing our brains in it.
EM: I became very interested in the theme of "bubbles" and the physics of soap films while working on the album artwork, and as Alex mentioned, "Free Energy" is a term I came across in my research. I love how innocuous the term is… something quite opposite to "Mandatory Enjoyment," our last album title, which is much more pointed and sardonic. "Free Energy" is light but powerful. It radiates positivity, and a release of genuine emotion, which is how I hope the album comes across… even more so than our previous releases.
PZ: Let's dive now into some of the tracks here. My personal favorite is "Nine Clean Nails." How did this one come about and what do you enjoy most about it? It sounds like a blast to play live.
JT: We haven't played this one live yet, it seems like it's a simple fun song but it's deceptively difficult rhythmically. We were continually trying to allow more space in the songs, not over relying on filling up every nook like we have in the past. Our songs, because they are so rhythmically focused have to be airtight, any slight mistake can make it all sound wonky, and this song definitely sounds wonky right now in practice but it will get there, and hopefully be fun live lol. It's the most straight forward sounding tune on the record, our version of motorik kiwi pop
AE: Its original demo was more guitar-focused and minimal, but I remember when we changed the bassline, we decided to reconfigure the guitars and have it coalesce into the big chorus. For the drums, we layered some improvised fills onto a drum loop we made, which was a technique we hadn't tried.
PZ: I also really dig the second track "Soonish." What are the origins of this one?
JT: I really wanted to make a noise pop dance song along the lines of Curve and in my mind that's what "Soonish" is.
EM: I think "Soonish" definitely leans toward the "Classic Dummy" side of the spectrum, at least in terms of this record… the kind of feedback-laden pop tune we all really enjoy making. Lyrically I got inspired by the strange look of a fire-training center in Pasadena. I imagined what it would be like to be a fire dummy, waiting around to be rescued. Kind of dark, and kind of a little bit funny… another "Classic Dummy" trope, in my opinion. There's an analogy for real-life experiences somewhere in there.
PZ: "Blue Dada" is an extraordinarily beautiful and otherworldly moment on the album, coming off as intense and catchy like a Feelies song. How did this one come together?
JT: Throughout the writing process, I was really digging into reading books on labels, especially reading three books on Flying Nun which introduced me to the less well known corners of their discography like Look Blue Go Purple, The Pin Group, Scorched-Earth Policy, and The Dead C. Around the same time that Kranky book came out and was really inspiring to read about that scene of bands, like all the Roy Montgomery groups (Dadamah, Dissolve, and solo), Spiny Anteaters and I love how "indie rock" was used as a pejorative within the label. The only book that is missing is one on Too Pure records who's bands Moonshake, Laika, and Seefel were also big touchstones. This song is like swirling all those labels into one multi-phased tune that harkens back to "H.V.A.C" or "Atonal Poem" from our first album. It was great to read about these labels, and scenes that were fully into the ART of it, rejecting whatever was en vogue at the time to do their own thing.
PZ: "Minus World" has a bit of a Paisley Underground sound quality with its bright, jangling guitars and mesmerizing whirlpool of noise. What can you say about how this one came about?
JT: We are not generally influenced by anything that's going on currently in music, we kind of stay in our own little lane but this song, in terms of my contributions, was fully based on watching Lewsberg's live streamed set from the last Gonerfest. I was blown away by their set, and I basically wrote this song immediately after. Their ability to express so much with so little, be it noise, rhythm or the strumming patterns it all works so well and just rules. I've been trying for years to make a bridge just feedback so....mission accomplished. Shout out to Lewsberg.
PZ: "Sudden Flutes" is another richly textured and brilliant example of Dummy's constantly shifting landscape of sounds. What was it like putting this one together?
EM: This song was actually initially joined with "A Dip in the Lake" as one song. They are still meant to be foils of one another, and are related, hence their placement on the record. I wouldn't say the lyrics are related, though. "A Dip in the Lake" is much more a genuine love song… while "Sudden Flutes" probably has the most dark and aggressive message on the record. Cole Pulice really brought it home with the ending of the song, though. We sent them the track and asked them to create whatever they felt, and what they sent back is nearly untouched in the way it appears on the album.
PZ: I've already asked about some of my favorite tracks from the new album, but which song from the record means the most to you (and why)?
JT: I think my favorite track is either "Unshaped Road'' because Emma's hook had my jaw on the floor the first time she sang it. "Psychic Battery'' its intro is this dub techno fake out into a more Hydroplane worship song. We wanted to make a fun record, and I think we did.
EM: "Nine Clean Nails" was my knee-jerk, instantaneous favorite. I basically screamed "shotgun!" in terms of who was going to take the lead on lyrics and vocals, because little hooks just started popping into my head. I just think the guitar parts are so catchy, and the bass line with the high-hat parts get me head-bopping. My other instant favorite is "Godspin." A little tear came to my eye when Alex presented the track. It's a really personal song for us as it incorporates field recordings we all took while on tour together, and I think it takes the listener on a journey out of the record in a beautiful way... emotional and reflective, with a slight sense of unease.
PZ: Emma, the cover art perfectly encapsulates the energy across the album. What were the inspirations behind it?
EM: I believe it was Alex or Joe who first sent an image of a bubble mid-pop to the group chat. It was such a striking image, I knew some interpolation of it needed to be on the album cover. All of the artwork and visuals surrounding this album actually uses bubbles as inspiration… potential energy, light, color… there are really a lot of interesting themes to explore. In terms of the overall aesthetic, we always want things to look a bit aggressive. I thought of the look of '90s techno singles, or Psychic TV or even Swans album covers—simple, striking, almost domineering. The spiky interpretation of the bubble popping leans into that. But Dummy art also always needs some playfulness and joy, and definitely color. For the LP packaging, that spiky bubble is hot-stamped in rainbow foil, and it turned out looking amazing! Thanks, Trouble in Mind!
PZ: How was it working on Free Energy compared to your debut LP Mandatory Enjoyment?
JT: I think writing Mandatory Enjoyment was much easier because it was during lockdown, we were on unemployment, and just had time to be creative in a more spontaneous and leisurely way. Recording it was a nightmare because we weren't playing live, it was recorded to tape and we were just being very particular about every little detail of the sound/mix. Free Energy on the other hand, was a more fun and easygoing recording comparatively, allowing things to sound more in the moment and human. The writing though was much more difficult because we weren't feeling inspired. We were just so burnt out, depressed, working full-time jobs again, and broke—those things don't lend themselves to a very productive creative atmosphere.
AE: I felt a lot more prepared going into recording the new one. We had a better idea of how to achieve things, being more familiar with the process, and having more of a shorthand with everyone involved. We also recorded everything ourselves, before ever stepping foot in the studio, only to re-record most of it. But I think that helped sort things out, and gave us a better idea of how we wanted everything to feel.
PZ: How do you feel looking back on your catalog? Do you still like or relate to your past releases?
JT: I still feel very proud of all our releases because of how much care we've put into each one, nothing is tossed off or just thrown out there, everything has equal weight to us. We also refuse to submit to modern fidelity expectations or anything to do with streaming, we make things you are meant to listen to from front to back.
NO: When I look at our past releases along with Free Energy… I feel a sense of accomplishment and pride with them all. When we started we were all just putting everything we had into Dummy and we are doing that to this day. Dummy takes a lot of time and energy to exist in and everything we've released shows ourselves growing and being as real as we can be to ourselves. I will always think fondly of taking mushrooms in a cabin in Idyllwild to make a 12 minute free-form piece we made for the end of the first Dummy EP.
PZ: I really enjoyed the A-Side "Mono Retriever" from your Sub Pop Singles Club release from 2022. What are the origins of that song? Also did that single in any way influence the direction on Free Energy?
JT: We viewed the Sub Pop single as a bookend to the first "era" of the band. The songs were written specifically for the single, both songs are in the same key. "Mono Retriever '' was inspired by someone telling me Dummy is like "If Stereolab was a hardcore band." With its B-side "Pepsi Vacuum," we were showing where the future of Dummy's music would go with exploring IDM, trip-hop, chill out, and sampling. Also getting that email about doing a single was pretty cool and shocking.
AE: When Sub Pop asked us to do the single, we had nothing new written. "Mono Retriever" was kind of our distilled version of what we'd been doing on the album previous. It wasn't left over from the other record, instead we decided to write two new songs for the single. But for the B-side, we wanted to explore a more electronic sound, which definitely continued onto our new album.
PZ: How excited are you to perform these new songs on your upcoming West Coast tour? Also what else are you looking forward to on those tour dates?
JT: Starting to feel excited since we are hard at work practicing again for the tour. I am really excited for the EU/UK because we had such a good time on our first trip. I'm also really proud of the release show we have with Time Wharp, Blimp, and Lockslip because it's so sonically all over the place, but really represents all the different facets of our taste. We always do our best to curate shows as something that will be fulfilling to us and the audience, a happening of sorts.
AE: We're approaching the performance for the tour differently this time. Trying to shake up the formula, and incorporate more spontaneous parts. We always want to build off of what we've done before, push towards exploring our own frontiers.
PZ: Aside from the new album and tour, what else is on the horizon for Dummy or Dummy-affiliated projects within the year?
JT: I think we are all just really focused on Dummy for the foreseeable future. I think we'd like to work on the ambient cassette that we've been talking about for a while, so hopefully we can work on that between tours.
PZ: Thank you for taking your time. Any advice or last words you'd like to share with our readers?
JT: Last words I'll say is listen to Aluminum, The Blisks, The Sheaves, Shop Regulars and Mope Grooves. Advice, I would say support and build local DIY scenes to nourish the counter culture, not flatten it.
Free Energy is out September 6th on Troubled in Mind Records.