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Memphis rock institute Nots are returning as a four-piece tonight at B-Side to celebrate the ten year anniversary of their terrific debut album, We Are Nots, an album that epitomizes the anxious and fractured muscular dissonances of combative garage punk of 21st-century America. Like The Klitz or Lost Sounds before them, Nots were a force of unfettered rock 'n' roll that that was grounded in Memphis' bafflingly idiosyncratic musical history. For a full history lesson, we chatted with the group to discuss their beginnings, the sounds of their city's underground, and spreading their primitive rage city to city.
First tell me what you've all been up to as of late?
Natalie Hoffmann (guitar, synth, vocals): I've been writing music with Optic Sink for our next album, we leave to record at the end of March. And I've been learning how to build furniture! Excited about that. Been doing ton of graphic design too.
Meredith Lones (bass): I started a tattoo apprenticeship at the beginning of the year so I've been pretty busy with that. I've also been working with Ibex Clone on our next album and just playing lots of music in general.
Alexandra Eastburn (keyboards, synth): I've been working on a lot of visual art. These past few years I was invited to participate in several solo and group exhibitions and it has been a whirlwind keeping up with all the creative projects and commitments. It's been really fun and exciting, but also intensely challenging.
Charlotte Watson (drums): I moved to New Orleans in 2020. I co-own and operate a flower farm in the lower 9th ward called Rainbow in the Dark (named for one of our favorite pre-gig warm up songs). I also work in coffee at Pond Coffee, a small espresso bar in the Marigny. I'm not playing a ton of music outside of synth jamming in my bedroom so this reunion is particularly exciting for me!
How has it been prepping for this Nots reunion? How exactly did it come about?
ML: It's been so much fun getting to all play music together again! Some songs clicked right back into place like we never stopped. Muscle memory is crazy.
AE: Natalie and I were having rooftop margaritas at Los Comales when she sprung the question of a reunion show (it had been brought up vaguely once before so I wasn't totally caught off guard)! And of course I couldn't say no, because they're my best friends. Plus I was really touched that they wanted to do this. It's been an absolute time trip playing with everyone again (I left the band in 2018 and have hardly played music since). Thank goodness for that muscle memory. It feels like puzzle pieces that got scattered and then put back together. Almost dreamlike in a sense, going back to a former version of myself.
CW: It's been so sweet and rewarding to make these trips back to Memphis to practice with Nots. It's so special to be a part of this group and tune back in to each other in a way so specific to us. I feel very lucky.
NH: I really missed playing music with Nots and was so excited when everyone was down for the reunion show. It's been really fun playing these songs again, and yeah muscle memory is a TOTAL trip!
Where did you all grow up and what was the local scene like in Memphis when you first started playing together? Also, were you in any groups prior to Nots?
NH: I grew up in a small town outside of Springfield, MO. I moved to Memphis in 2007 to go to Memphis College of Art and I was so immersed in art stuff that I didn't really start going to shows until about a year after I moved to Memphis, but I remember The Barbaras, Jay Reatard, and The Warble (think The Warble entered my radar first because they were all art students.) I played in a band called Bake Sale with Charlotte, and I played in Ex-Cult.
ML: My trajectory is pretty similar to Natalie's. I grew up in a little rural town in Northwest TN and moved to Memphis to go to art school. It took me a little while to realize that local music scenes existed [laughs], but after that I went to as many shows as I could. I think Bake Sale was actually one of the first shows I went to here! Some other early ones for me were The Barbaras and True Sons of Thunder. The first band I played in was Hash Redactor.
AE: I grew up in Hot Springs, AR and went to my first punk show when I was 12 or 13—that’s when it all began for me, and going to shows became a regular part of my life. I had also started playing drums around that time but never joined any bands until after I moved to Memphis in 2006 to go to art school. I almost immediately started attending shows and remember them being wild and unruly in all the best ways. Acts like Kazalok, Girls of the Gravitron, The Barbaras, The Warble, Noise Choir, The Loose Christies, Jay Reatard and Evil Army come to mind. I think it was 2007 or was it 2008?—when I joined the Barbaras for a short fling as their drummer. That was my first time being in a band, I had no confidence in what I was doing and I played Moe Tucker style because it felt safe. We played Gonerfest at the old HiTone and they had me drumming on stage by myself while they played in the pit wearing thongs made out of balloons or something to that effect. That was my introduction into the punk scene here.
CW: I moved to Memphis from Miami, Florida to go to Rhodes College. My choice to move to Memphis was very much based on family, my dad was born and raised in Memphis and both him and my grandfather went to Rhodes. I didn't know anything about rock 'n' roll or what it means to make new family before I moved to Memphis. I played in a bunch of bands, firstly and most formatively with Natalie in Bake Sale and really got my chops playing drums in Manateees from 2011-2014. Meredith and I also played together in Hash Redactor, a band I love and truly miss playing with.
For readers unfamiliar, how did you all meet and form Nots?
NH: Charlotte and I played together in Bake Sale with our friends Carly Greenwell and Joy Shepard. Bake Sale eventually turned into Nots, and Charlotte and I both got more into punk music so the songs started shifting too.
ML: I definitely met Allie through art school. I can't remember if Natalie and I met there or through political organizing or through going to shows. Probably some combo of all three! And I think I met Charlotte through Natalie.
NH: Yeah! Can't remember where Meredith and I met but a combo of all three sounds correct. I met Allie at art school too.
AE: Natalie, Meredith and I all went to Memphis College of Art together. I met Charlotte through Natalie when they were doing Bake Sale; those shows were so much fun and definitely very inspiring because there just weren't many girl groups happening then. Then Bake Sale morphed into Nots and I thought, wow this is my favorite local band! I was really surprised when they asked me to join because I had absolutely no experience playing synth or keyboard, I didn’t even own one. They became familiar with my music taste because I was DJing around town a lot then and they thought I'd be a good fit based on the records I was playing.
CW: I remember meeting Natalie at a party in like 2008 or 2009. She was living with some classmates of mine and we got to talking about how much we liked The Shangri-Las and how we wanted to start a band. The next thing I know we're making baked tofu sandwiches and playing acoustic guitars together in the living room. WILD! I met Allie and Meredith later, through the music and art scene and via other friends at Memphis College of Art. Real Memphis magic in the works there.
NH: Awe yeah true Memphis magic for sure! That tofu sandwich day was so special and fun!
So when did Nots begin playing shows together. The first tape was self-released and limited to 40, right?
NH: Nots evolved from Bake Sale, me and Charlotte's first band together. As our music taste drifted more into punk, post-punk, psychedelic and new wave, the sound of the band followed and evolved from the garage-y '60s girl group inspired music into something different. That tape is one of my favorites though, it caught us in this cool transitional moment between Bake Sale and Nots. That version of Nots was me on guitar, Carly Greenwell on bass, and Charlotte on drums. And yep, we self-released that one as a limited edition.
What are some memories you have recording your debut single Dust Red?
NH: We recorded that with our great friend Keith Cooper, who now plays bass and guitar in Optic Sink, on a 1/2" reel to reel tape recorder. I remember going to his house before going to my shift at a fancy restaurant to overdub vocals. I was dressed in like…the most boring hostess outfit singing those vocals at like noon or something. It was really funny.
How did the record release run with Goner Records come about? How did that later expand to Heavenly and Upset The Rhythm overseas?
NH: I remember someone (maybe it was me?) sent the recordings to Goner and then we didn't really hear anything for a while until one day when I was on tour with Ex-Cult and I think JB or Alec showed me the Goner newsletter and said, "Goner's going to release a Nots EP? That rules!" And that was the first I had heard of it [laughs]. But we were stoked of course, and they released all of the songs instead of just two so that was cool. After that came out, they asked us if we wanted to release an LP and we did, and then we surprised them by changing our lineup significantly—Charlotte moved from drums to bass and Alexandra joined us on synth. So I don't think they really knew what to expect from that first LP.
CW: We got connected with Heavenly at a show at SXSW. Sort of one of those stories you hear about but don't really think will happen to you. We're fortunate to have some of our albums released in the UK and Europe and that certainly helped us tour overseas. Cosmetic was such a departure from We Are Nots, I don't think Heavenly knew what they were in for! Once we got overseas we connected with Upset the Rhythm, who were producing a lot of live shows in the London area at the time. When we were developing our third album, we asked them if they would be interested in releasing it in the UK. Upset the Rhythm has released albums for our friends Terry from Australia and The World from Oakland and it just felt like this moment of connection that was sensible and aligned.
Your debut album is a truly incredible release that aged so well. What was the story behind writing, recording and producing We Are Nots?
NH: Thank you! I remember working on those songs when I lived in this big, beautiful house with a bunch of other punks and artists—Meredith who plays bass with us from the second album lived there, along with Alec and Michael who both played in Ex-Cult with me, and our friend Jeshua who is an amazing artist. It was a really inspirational space and time and I remember playing so much guitar to myself in there to come up with the basic chord structures and vocals for those songs. Then I'd take that to practice and we'd turn it into a fully realized song with everyone layering their parts in. It was really fun and special to hear how the songs evolved with everyone's parts. We got lucky and ended up being able to record it with Doug Easley. He's a legend and the time we spent recording in the studio was great. The studio has a really good feel to it, a good tangible creative energy. I was there recently while Kurt Vile was recording and immediately remembered how good it felt to work on stuff there, and I hadn't been in ten years! So it's definitely got some magic. We all produced the record together, and Doug has an incredible ear and managed to balance all of the different opinions coming at him about what everything should sound like. It was a great experience. I also remember listening to Madonna and The Cure tapes exclusively as I drove to and from the studio. "Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me" still makes me think of that time.
AE: It was a wildly experimental time for me because I had never played a synthesizer before. I think I felt a little bit of imposter syndrome, but I remember our writing-rehearsal sessions being incredibly amped up and fun and everyone was so receptive and encouraging about what I was bringing to the songs. Simultaneously, we were forming strong bonds with each other. Playing music together can really take friendship to another level—you get to know each other quite well, not just in a personal way, but creatively and intuitively—and a lot of that building energy was going into the songs.
What's it like looking back at it and celebrating ten years now?
NH: It's hard to believe it's been ten years! It's been……hard to describe honestly! Pretty emotional all around for me. It's really special to see how excited everyone is. We're insanely lucky to have so many sweet, talented, genuine people in our corner and seeing their sweet reactions to this show coming up and to Nots in general has made me tear up on more than one occasion. It's hard for me to process how much has both changed and stayed the same over ten years. I certainly miss playing with Nots so it's been wonderful to be able to celebrate this album with them and with everyone who's into it!
CW: I've been spending a lot of time preparing for this reunion show by listening to We Are Nots and walking to and from work and around my neighborhood. It has been so rewarding to feel these sounds downloading into my body after so many years. It was very much a time and place in life and I am just so taken back at the people we were then and how special it is to integrate that energy now.
AE: It's crazy that it has already been a whole ass decade and it's so great to have the opportunity to celebrate! Preparing for it really has felt like stepping back in time. Right now, I'm feeling an immense amount of gratitude for getting to share all these dynamic experiences and adventures with my friends who have become like family to me over the years. It's also quite amazing and emotional to witness all the enthusiastic responses from folks who love Nots and have had meaningful experiences hearing/seeing us play. Thanks everyone! It means a lot to us.
One of my favorite releases of yours is the 7" Fix / Modern. How did those two songs come together and what do you recall from writing them?
NH: "Fix" and "Modern" were written during a time when I ended up at the casinos in Tunica with my boyfriend at the time (now husband) Michael….pretty often. The drive to Tunica from Memphis is extremely surreal, it's just a bunch of flat fields and billboards and then suddenly some casinos that are very past their prime start to appear. The line, "Am I gonna be rich for your fix" popped into my head at some point when I was going down there and then I started to relate that to the political atmosphere and systemic, stark divide of where wealth is and who has control of it.
CW: I love that single. It feels like a bridge between our sound on the first tape we released and what was to come on We Are Nots. "Fix" is such a killer song and those lyrics feel so relevant today.
You released quite a few 7" singles over the years. Is there any that you're most proud of?
NH: I've always loved the Cruel Friend / Violence single. "Violence" was a cool dynamic turning point in Nots and the first song where I played synth instead of guitar, and I really enjoy the way Allie's synths and mine sound together. It was a fun experiment in different textures and dynamics.
CW: I really love Virgin Mary / Shelf Life. Probably our most challenging song to play on bass and drums and really wild on synth and guitar. It cemented this structure where the bass and drums anchor the song while the synth and guitar get to go wild ! That single also showcases a beautiful painting that Allie did for the cover art that Natalie then used in the overall design. I have always loved Natalie and Allie's visual collaborations in addition to the sonic realities they create together.
AE: I really like Anxious Trend / In Glass, but honestly, all the singles hold a special place for me. "Virgin Mary" has always been one of my favorite Nots tracks, and "Violence" was particularly fun because it was the first time Natalie and I jammed on synths together.
ML: One of my favorites is also Anxious Trend / In Glass. The Violence single feels really special too. If I remember correctly, we recorded it in Goner squeezed into the back surrounded by records.
The follow up LP, Cosmetic, was another high caliber recording. What was it like working on it in comparison to your debut album?
NH: Cosmetic was largely written collaboratively in a cold, metal storage unit that we used to practice in. Those songs were a little more freeform and winding because of the approach and I think the wild echo and overall atmosphere of the storage unit really played into how that one turned out. We were also listening to a lot more Chrome and Hawkwind at the time, so I think that had a heavy influence on the record as well.
ML: Yeah, that storage unit was intense! [laughs] But despite the downfalls of the space, working on Cosmetic was so much fun. I feel like we really developed an unspoken language while writing those songs together. It was a special time for sure.
CW: I remember cutting a lot of those tracks live. Like, doing three takes of "Entertain Me" and just picking the one we liked the most. That feels so Memphis to me—keeping the recording raw and true to the energy we cultivate as a live band. It's a really intense and beautiful moment captured. It is without question my favorite of our full-length albums because we were really pushing ourselves to expand sonically.
NH: I loved when we were selecting the take of "Entertain Me" to use, we picked the one with the most verve, and then we had to learn how to play it that way! [laughs] And I'm still learning how to play it that way! It was such a cool improvisational process. We recorded that one at Keith Cooper's house too with him and Andrew McCalla. It was very comfortable and fun working on those songs there and I think you can hear that we're all down to try the songs in different ways and see where they take us.
How exactly did the live album come about and what do you recall from that show in January '17?
NH: I honestly don't remember whose idea the live album was. I remember thinking that the Reigning Sound Live at Goner Records album was really cool, and I've always loved live albums. There's something so cool about hearing a band live, such a different energy and feeling than studio recordings. I'm sure however it got suggested we were all stoked about it, [laughs]. That show was really fun and special because it wasn't at a bar! I love playing the bar shows, but I always wish there were more non-bar / all ages spaces in Memphis. And of course the Goner shop holds a special place in our hearts. And our friend and frequent recording collaborator Andrew [McCalla] recorded that show too. I love the photo where you can see him in the background, it's a very "man behind the curtain" feeling. Making the albums themselves was fun too, the covers are all glued on by hand.
What were some of the highlights touring Australia in November '17? That bill with Ausmuteants and Vintage Crop had to of been special.
CW: It's… kind of a blur. I remember getting drunk on tiny red wines on the plane and watching Black Swan for the first time. I remember seeing a koala in-person which I highly recommend. I also remember feeling this kindred energy to Memphis at this one bar The Tote. It felt like the old HiTone when it was on Poplar Ave., but Aussie. We definitely had a great time and partied pretty hard with friends we had met in Aussie bands that had rolled through Memphis over the years (shout out Deaf Wish and Ausmuteants!) I only wish I had stayed longer!
AE: Every single band we played with in Australia was just incredible, and everyone was so nice. It was a whirlwind to travel so far for such a quick run and we really packed it in, so yeah, it is a bit of a blur. I remember there being a meat raffle going on at one of the venues before we sound checked. That was weird. Making eye contact with koala bears at the wildlife sanctuary felt like a blessing bestowed upon the soul. And seeing the frogmouth tawny up close. Definitely too short-lived.
NH: Whew yeah TOTAL blur! One of my biggest regrets in Nots is that we didn't stay in AU longer or combine it with a tour in New Zealand and Japan, both because that would have been amazing, but also because the flight over there REALLY got me. I felt like I had just recovered from jet lag when I was leaving. But the shows were absolutely incredible and that Ausmuteants / Vintage Crop show was so much fun. Like Allie said, every band we played with over there was amazing. I remember this band called The Lymes (coincidentally there was also a Memphis Limes-speaking of Memphis /Aussie connections) and they were great. I think that one was at a really cool place called The Eastern in Ballarat. I think Terry played that one too? They were incredible.
ML: They summed it up pretty well! It is one of my favorite places I've ever been. There's just so many good bands there and such a genuine love for rock 'n' roll. It was great seeing all those bands and being surrounded by that energy.
How do you see your third album from 2019? What are some memories that the record brings back?
CW: 3 in my opinion are some of our best sounding recordings. It was the first time I incorporated more drum pieces into our sound—hi-hats, crash cymbal, and rack tom. It also feels like this pre cursor to what Natalie would end up doing with Optic Sink with her playing more synths. I remember feeling like the songs were very cohesive, all coming from the same place. It was also the first time we recorded songs for an album that we were not playing live and that was a real shift from the previous albums.
NH: Yeah 3 definitely has some sonic range that we hadn't previously explored and I'm proud of us for that. We leaned into a more sparse sound at moments that comes with being a three piece instead of a four piece. It was a little tough for me because I did really miss playing live. We weren't playing or touring nearly as often at that point so Nots felt more like a recording project, and I thrive on playing live so that was something that I really missed. The recording process of 3 was fun though, we recorded with Andrew [McCalla] again at his spot in Memphis. He has such a good ear and he had a lot of great input on overdub ideas and stuff to fill out the recordings and take them to the next level.
ML: I loved working on 3. It was definitely a point in time that felt slower since we weren't playing out as much. I remember us sitting in the floor of our practice space with a 4-track working on demos and it felt so cozy.
Where and when was your most memorable gig?
CW: Gonerfest 11 felt like a peak moment for Nots in the We Are Nots-era. Probably one of our wildest shows ever. Very energetic and intense! And you can watch it all on YouTube ;).
AE: It’s hard to choose, but Death By Audio's last ever show in 2014 (NYC) is definitely one of them. We were running late because we got stuck in traffic and didn't have a minute to spare, not even to pee. As soon as we got there, we all squeezed through a tiny Alice In Wonderland-esque door with our gear which spit us directly onto the stage. The crowd was a rolling gargantuan force of sweaty heads. We played a great show and I felt full of electricity from all the energy swirling in that room. Also, playing on a tiny boat full of punks in Hamburg, Germany in 2017. We hit a wave and my whole synth setup fell over! Totally impractical but very fun and highly memorable.
NH: Both of the shows Allie and Charlotte mentioned are so memorable for totally different reasons! But I'd have to agree with both of those, and would also like to throw playing at King Georg (about eight or nine years ago when it was more of a punk club with a hostel above it) in Cologne, Germany in there. It was just a really special feeling being there and playing in that beautiful, small, red neon-lit bar. I loved that the audience was basically “on stage” with you. And we met so many sweet, cool people after the show. I remember drinking at the bar and playing with someone's sampler that they had brought up to the show for fun while other people were just lounging in the booths hanging out. It was a really fun night.
ML: That boat show was wild! I remember people hanging off the side of the boat during the show to take pictures. I'll never forget that one. King Georg was also one of my favorites! The bar itself was just so incredible. It felt straight out of a movie. Playing Primavera was super special as well. We got to see The Damned play at that one which was a blast!
How would you say your friendship has evolved over the years? Or how you've grown together musically?
CW: Everyone in this band feels like family to me. There is less opportunity to connect since I moved away, but no matter how much time passes I feel connected to everyone. I love all of them and miss the way music was such a major part of my life while living in Memphis. It's also so lovely to see everyone grow musically. Optic Sink and Ibex Clone are such amazing bands. I get teary when I see them play because they are so damn good!!
AE: It has been a beautiful evolution, to say the least! Regardless of having left the band to focus on my own creative endeavors, I've maintained really strong relationships with everyone and feel so lucky to have them in my life. Definitely my chosen family.
NH: Totally agree with Allie and Charlotte, this band feels like family and I'm really grateful to have them in my life and for all of our wild experiences together!
ML: Gotta echo everyone else here. I feel so lucky that we all ended up in Memphis and crossed paths! They are some of the most talented and kind hearted people that I know. Truly grateful to get to move through life with them.
Are there any future plans for Nots? Possibly more shows? Possibly another record?
CW: If there is anything I've learned in my short time on this earth it's that you never know what’s gonna happen. Never say never!
NH: Exactly! Who knows!
ML: Yes, never say never!
Anything to look out for regarding your other groups Optic Sink and Ibex Clone?
NH: Optic Sink has been writing, we're recording our third album this March, and we're hoping to tour more after that.
ML: Ibex Clone has mostly been taking a break from playing shows to focus on writing and we’re planning to get in the studio to record in the new year. Hopefully we'll do a little touring as well.
Any advice or last words you'd like to share with readers?
CW: Tell the people you love you love them ! Life is so precious now more than ever. Also try composting and FREE PALESTINE!
3 is out now on Goner Records (USA) and Upset The Rhythm (UK).